To coin a proverb, one fascism scholar is an expert; two is an unlawful gathering. So today we talked with scholars of fascism Ruth Ben-Ghiat and Jason Stanley (and 4,100 readers) about whether Donald Trump’s disproportionate response to anti-ICE protests in Los Angeles puts the United States further down the path towards a police state — or opens up possibilities for an effective and sustained mass response.
Both suggest that Trump is over-responding to the Los Angeles protests as “insurance” — he’s not concerned these protests specifically; like the military parade planned for next week, it’s about habituating Americans to seeing force on the streets, to pressure people not to protect their neighbors and communities, because the regime is weak, not strong. And as benefits stop and the economy contracts, Ruth suggests, a reckoning — and a real mass movement — is on the way.
What does that look like? As Jason told us, it’s going to require something new. “Fascism is a revolution,” he says, “and you cannot defeat a revolution by returning to the status quo.” “When we resist,” says Ruth, “we’re modeling a different ethos — becoming part of something bigger.”
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More Live conversations this week!
Join us tomorrow, Tuesday, June 10, at 12:30 p.m. Eastern, when we’ll speak to journalists Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson about Joe Biden and the future of the Democratic Party. On Wednesday, June 11, at 12:30 p.m. Eastern, we’ll meet with The Ink Book Club (This week’s conversation is moving to Zoom; details at the bottom of this post). And on Thursday, June 12, at 12:30 p.m. Eastern, we’re back with political sage Anat Shenker-Osorio.
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