So glad you posted the MSNBC exchange. I wanted to thank you all morning for moving the discussion away from broken furniture and smashed windows (Mika's main concern!) And I could see that Frank Bruni was learning from you! As a retired ESL higher ed teacher, who made mistakes when the Chinese students at USC protested in the spring of 1989, I want to go on the record that I do not romanticize campus protests...although I get your point. I was in Chicago in 1968 and it was not fun; yet I am thrilled with the new wave of campus pro-Palestinian protests.
The press is either not doing due diligence, or they don't actually know, but who are these anarchists and "outside agitators." In the 60s they were J. Edgar Hoover's servants. I am not hopeful that Americans will understand the complicated history of Israeli occupied Palestine, but they know a bit more thanks to these students. I renewed my subscription to INK - you are the most brilliant guest on the news. Thank you again.
I saw you on Morning Jo today. I was so happy to hear you speaking the truth about the student protesters. I am so proud of the protesters, they give me hope. I have four children between the ages of 20 and 30 and I am a proud mother of their moral compasses. If I had to miss a graduation because of my child's willingness to stand up for others who are being starved and slaughtered, then I would be proud of my student and would think that would be a small sacrifice to pay for the bigger good. You were an excellent model for how this should be discussed. Thank you.
Great comment about your kids. I can relate with 2 in their 20s, each of whom have peacefully protested with (mostly) other young people in the past…Of course to no avail with the power structure, which must wait until the temperature gets so hot that they must react by cracking down. I used my older white privilege to write an OpEd in large city paper about what they had experienced with police militarization. We parents can show up, write—we have a part to play too? Sounds like you’re a great parent who raised great kids. Our hope for the future!
This is exactly the type of discussion that needs to happen for so many issues. I cannot watch the yell-a-thons, or the constant insults, or talking over other views that happens way too often in the media. It's also very important who is actually involved in these discussions - people who have knowledge about the issues and want to discuss the issues, not create sound bytes and make a name for themself. I'm a retired academic and I agree with Anand that we're talking about students, people who are learning about the world and how they fit in. They frequently do not yet have the skills to succinctly put into words what they believe and feel, they make bad decisions (but that doesn't automatically make them bad people), they don't understand how difficult it is to bring about change and how long it takes to bring about change. I am in complete agreement that violence, intimidation, hate speech, vandalism are wrong and there should be consequences. But, I also remember the civil rights protests, the protests against the Vietnam War, South African apartheid, and the Iraq War. As Anand said, history looks differently on the protestors that what's being said in the present.
Anand, I watch this segment live this morning--one of the most well-framed discussions on this most complex "compound security" dilemma I have experienced to-date. Yours and Mara Gay's comments compelled me to join The.Ink as a paying subscriber.
Thank you, Thank you, Anand. It is so important that you were there to push back. The MSM was surrounding you, false equivalencies flying. Footage of chairs those bad (implied) lawless college students had piled up, in the background to stir up the old people who were watching. No footage of Jewish and Muslim and other students sharing meals during the protest—of course not! Only talk of antisemitism—which is NOT the same as being anti-“Israel genocide”.
Also LOVED how you said “the students are trying to tell us something—and throughout history, the moral foundations of student protest have aged well.” But MSM must twist themselves into pretzels to silence these incredibly courageous students—because they are a threat to the truly despicable status quo: that what is going on in Gaza should be SUPPORTED??? Is that what these pundits talking about “grievances” are saying: these students are complainers. Damn right they are—as ALL of us should be. That the MAIN question/issue here—you can always bring it around to that. Ask your copanelists directly: ARE YOU OK WITH WHAT IS GOING ON IN GAZA—if not what are YOU doing with your white privilege to stop it???
I was beside myself with joy listening to you this morning. Morning Joe has been covering these protests for months now from the viewpoint that they are ignorant and antisemitic children who should be put in their place. They never had on any guests, such as the protesters themselves, with a viewpoint that didn't align with the hosts. Finally, you and Mara Gay gave people another way to look at this situation. Thank you.
Thank you for bringing up the historical context, Anand.
So many of the actions that have shaped this country--from a Revolution to helping to end an unjust war (Vietnam) to Civil Rights protests--have not been pretty. There were lots of inconveniences and yes, some damages that occurred during those protests. But they, as you said, are now looked at in a different light.
This morning's conversation is what motivated me to part with money I really can't afford. So I won't eat for a couple days :-) Not really wise. At 91 i have more years than I have pounds. But, seriously, I've been wanting to write this since last October 7. Guilt is a formidable motivator. I was 12 when WW2 ended. It was a time without TV, iphones, Internet, social media. We got news from the radio and newsreels at the local movie theater. I lived in Great Neck, NY. A town with a large Jewish population. Although not Jewish I had Jewish godparents. I think we were one of the first towns to see what was called the Atrocity Films. As children we did not see them but I still see the look on my parents' faces when they came home. As the word spread and people remembered the St. Louis and all the other times when the world turned its back on Jews escaping Germany shame and guilt started to permeate the population. Then when the establishment of a Jewish state was proposed who could possibly not support it. This is where history become foggy. How many people really know all the machinations that went into the making of Israel? This is where generational differences enter the picture. My generation remembers the Holocaust. Today's generation sees the territories that are "occupied". The Palestinian homes being destroyed and then October 7. followed by the war in Gaza. Killing and terror is never justified. A phrase from a Howard Zinn lecture many years ago resonates, "war is political capital, whenever a leader declares war his numbers go up". Very few people who actually fight these wars want to. Wouldn't it be nice if those who declared war were the ones who actually had to do battle. Both sides need to study the history. Talk to one another. What I love about Anand is he understands nuance. A note: the proportion of women posting is larger than usual. Apologies for rambling on just had to write it. People don't have to read it :-)
Thank you. The proportion of women protesting and getting arrested is larger than I expected. Could that have something to do with their concern for the children starving and being killed. War is hard on women and children who have so little control of their fate.
Lynne, I think your observation may be quite correct. Stereotypically, (not sure there's such a word) women are more empathic. Not always the case, of course, but generally. There were many women involved in the civil rights movement but they were often in the background and not recognized.
Thank you, Anand. This was inspiring. I’d like you to expand on an idea you presented in this clip: what do you think the students are trying to tell us through their protests? What do we, adult members of this society, not see?
I continue to be grounded and inspired by your capacity to be in dialog with the likes of Rebecca Solnit to Morning Joe, always offering a nuanced and appropriately "complexified" perspective in the face of seemingly unending attempts to double down on the oversimplified and watered down rhetoric of good vs. bad. and right vs. wrong. Pointing out that fear and anxiety is underneath and at the heart of the unhinged Jan 6th insurrection is NOT romanticizing their actions. (That comment was a head scratcher 🤔). It's about acknowledging that those fears and anxieties of a multi-racial, multi-ethnic democracy are HERE and must be engaged and met with some degree of curiosity and openess so that the only alternative isn't a fascist regime led by an insolent man-child who is RULED by his grievances. Your newsletter and conversations are a steady drum beat of sanity and essential nuance. Thank you!
Thank You for sharing. It was so refreshing to hear everyone get their points across without shouting and shaming. I’m curious if any of your minds were changed by listening to each other🤔. I find it interesting the folks who focus on the broken chairs and buildings and not on the reasons for the protests. I recall the same response during the Black Lives Matter protests where there were also outside agitators. I don’t condone violence and unfortunately there will always be outside elements with bad intentions. But too many of us are more focused on our comfort and don’t care that other people/groups also have grievances. More than time for us all to listen.
Teachers ... Show this ... Discuss this ... Slowly & carefully while giving voice to all ... Embrace subtlety & nuance & gray areas & peaceful protest ... while condemning assaults, violence, bullying, & intimidation
Anand - I was trying to make this very point yesterday in another Substack and was accused of romanticizing the anti-Vietnam protests of the 1960s. I think we naturally turn into our parents ("the adults") when it comes to college protests, and we need to stop that. I will continue to believe that good things came from the anti-Vietnam protests, despite them being messy and upsetting. Your point that ALL anti-establishment protests are messy and that that fact doesn't at all discount what the protestors are saying is on point. I'm a college professor - we teach students to be passionate about social justice, that one person CAN make a difference, that their views are important, and then we discount them the minute they try to communicate a passion in a way that will make people hear them. I'm an old guy, but I will not ever become a Governor Reagan stomping on California university students with all the force of the government because he doesn't like their message. We need to listen, be humble, and let the new generation tell us what is on their minds.
So glad you posted the MSNBC exchange. I wanted to thank you all morning for moving the discussion away from broken furniture and smashed windows (Mika's main concern!) And I could see that Frank Bruni was learning from you! As a retired ESL higher ed teacher, who made mistakes when the Chinese students at USC protested in the spring of 1989, I want to go on the record that I do not romanticize campus protests...although I get your point. I was in Chicago in 1968 and it was not fun; yet I am thrilled with the new wave of campus pro-Palestinian protests.
The press is either not doing due diligence, or they don't actually know, but who are these anarchists and "outside agitators." In the 60s they were J. Edgar Hoover's servants. I am not hopeful that Americans will understand the complicated history of Israeli occupied Palestine, but they know a bit more thanks to these students. I renewed my subscription to INK - you are the most brilliant guest on the news. Thank you again.
I saw you on Morning Jo today. I was so happy to hear you speaking the truth about the student protesters. I am so proud of the protesters, they give me hope. I have four children between the ages of 20 and 30 and I am a proud mother of their moral compasses. If I had to miss a graduation because of my child's willingness to stand up for others who are being starved and slaughtered, then I would be proud of my student and would think that would be a small sacrifice to pay for the bigger good. You were an excellent model for how this should be discussed. Thank you.
Great comment about your kids. I can relate with 2 in their 20s, each of whom have peacefully protested with (mostly) other young people in the past…Of course to no avail with the power structure, which must wait until the temperature gets so hot that they must react by cracking down. I used my older white privilege to write an OpEd in large city paper about what they had experienced with police militarization. We parents can show up, write—we have a part to play too? Sounds like you’re a great parent who raised great kids. Our hope for the future!
This is exactly the type of discussion that needs to happen for so many issues. I cannot watch the yell-a-thons, or the constant insults, or talking over other views that happens way too often in the media. It's also very important who is actually involved in these discussions - people who have knowledge about the issues and want to discuss the issues, not create sound bytes and make a name for themself. I'm a retired academic and I agree with Anand that we're talking about students, people who are learning about the world and how they fit in. They frequently do not yet have the skills to succinctly put into words what they believe and feel, they make bad decisions (but that doesn't automatically make them bad people), they don't understand how difficult it is to bring about change and how long it takes to bring about change. I am in complete agreement that violence, intimidation, hate speech, vandalism are wrong and there should be consequences. But, I also remember the civil rights protests, the protests against the Vietnam War, South African apartheid, and the Iraq War. As Anand said, history looks differently on the protestors that what's being said in the present.
Yes and those of us who can, can choose to use our bodies, pens, voices to support them?
A master class in civil discourse .
Anand, I watch this segment live this morning--one of the most well-framed discussions on this most complex "compound security" dilemma I have experienced to-date. Yours and Mara Gay's comments compelled me to join The.Ink as a paying subscriber.
Thank you, Thank you, Anand. It is so important that you were there to push back. The MSM was surrounding you, false equivalencies flying. Footage of chairs those bad (implied) lawless college students had piled up, in the background to stir up the old people who were watching. No footage of Jewish and Muslim and other students sharing meals during the protest—of course not! Only talk of antisemitism—which is NOT the same as being anti-“Israel genocide”.
Also LOVED how you said “the students are trying to tell us something—and throughout history, the moral foundations of student protest have aged well.” But MSM must twist themselves into pretzels to silence these incredibly courageous students—because they are a threat to the truly despicable status quo: that what is going on in Gaza should be SUPPORTED??? Is that what these pundits talking about “grievances” are saying: these students are complainers. Damn right they are—as ALL of us should be. That the MAIN question/issue here—you can always bring it around to that. Ask your copanelists directly: ARE YOU OK WITH WHAT IS GOING ON IN GAZA—if not what are YOU doing with your white privilege to stop it???
100%
I totally agree with you. the students are being misrepresented. Their protest is correct.
I was beside myself with joy listening to you this morning. Morning Joe has been covering these protests for months now from the viewpoint that they are ignorant and antisemitic children who should be put in their place. They never had on any guests, such as the protesters themselves, with a viewpoint that didn't align with the hosts. Finally, you and Mara Gay gave people another way to look at this situation. Thank you.
fyi check out Joy Reid lately.
I agree with Mara Gay as well.
Thank you for bringing up the historical context, Anand.
So many of the actions that have shaped this country--from a Revolution to helping to end an unjust war (Vietnam) to Civil Rights protests--have not been pretty. There were lots of inconveniences and yes, some damages that occurred during those protests. But they, as you said, are now looked at in a different light.
This morning's conversation is what motivated me to part with money I really can't afford. So I won't eat for a couple days :-) Not really wise. At 91 i have more years than I have pounds. But, seriously, I've been wanting to write this since last October 7. Guilt is a formidable motivator. I was 12 when WW2 ended. It was a time without TV, iphones, Internet, social media. We got news from the radio and newsreels at the local movie theater. I lived in Great Neck, NY. A town with a large Jewish population. Although not Jewish I had Jewish godparents. I think we were one of the first towns to see what was called the Atrocity Films. As children we did not see them but I still see the look on my parents' faces when they came home. As the word spread and people remembered the St. Louis and all the other times when the world turned its back on Jews escaping Germany shame and guilt started to permeate the population. Then when the establishment of a Jewish state was proposed who could possibly not support it. This is where history become foggy. How many people really know all the machinations that went into the making of Israel? This is where generational differences enter the picture. My generation remembers the Holocaust. Today's generation sees the territories that are "occupied". The Palestinian homes being destroyed and then October 7. followed by the war in Gaza. Killing and terror is never justified. A phrase from a Howard Zinn lecture many years ago resonates, "war is political capital, whenever a leader declares war his numbers go up". Very few people who actually fight these wars want to. Wouldn't it be nice if those who declared war were the ones who actually had to do battle. Both sides need to study the history. Talk to one another. What I love about Anand is he understands nuance. A note: the proportion of women posting is larger than usual. Apologies for rambling on just had to write it. People don't have to read it :-)
We very much appreciate your words and perspective!
Thank you. The proportion of women protesting and getting arrested is larger than I expected. Could that have something to do with their concern for the children starving and being killed. War is hard on women and children who have so little control of their fate.
Lynne, I think your observation may be quite correct. Stereotypically, (not sure there's such a word) women are more empathic. Not always the case, of course, but generally. There were many women involved in the civil rights movement but they were often in the background and not recognized.
no apologies necessary! your comments are powerful. Thank you.
Thank you, Anand. This was inspiring. I’d like you to expand on an idea you presented in this clip: what do you think the students are trying to tell us through their protests? What do we, adult members of this society, not see?
I continue to be grounded and inspired by your capacity to be in dialog with the likes of Rebecca Solnit to Morning Joe, always offering a nuanced and appropriately "complexified" perspective in the face of seemingly unending attempts to double down on the oversimplified and watered down rhetoric of good vs. bad. and right vs. wrong. Pointing out that fear and anxiety is underneath and at the heart of the unhinged Jan 6th insurrection is NOT romanticizing their actions. (That comment was a head scratcher 🤔). It's about acknowledging that those fears and anxieties of a multi-racial, multi-ethnic democracy are HERE and must be engaged and met with some degree of curiosity and openess so that the only alternative isn't a fascist regime led by an insolent man-child who is RULED by his grievances. Your newsletter and conversations are a steady drum beat of sanity and essential nuance. Thank you!
Thank You for sharing. It was so refreshing to hear everyone get their points across without shouting and shaming. I’m curious if any of your minds were changed by listening to each other🤔. I find it interesting the folks who focus on the broken chairs and buildings and not on the reasons for the protests. I recall the same response during the Black Lives Matter protests where there were also outside agitators. I don’t condone violence and unfortunately there will always be outside elements with bad intentions. But too many of us are more focused on our comfort and don’t care that other people/groups also have grievances. More than time for us all to listen.
Teachers ... Show this ... Discuss this ... Slowly & carefully while giving voice to all ... Embrace subtlety & nuance & gray areas & peaceful protest ... while condemning assaults, violence, bullying, & intimidation
Anand - I was trying to make this very point yesterday in another Substack and was accused of romanticizing the anti-Vietnam protests of the 1960s. I think we naturally turn into our parents ("the adults") when it comes to college protests, and we need to stop that. I will continue to believe that good things came from the anti-Vietnam protests, despite them being messy and upsetting. Your point that ALL anti-establishment protests are messy and that that fact doesn't at all discount what the protestors are saying is on point. I'm a college professor - we teach students to be passionate about social justice, that one person CAN make a difference, that their views are important, and then we discount them the minute they try to communicate a passion in a way that will make people hear them. I'm an old guy, but I will not ever become a Governor Reagan stomping on California university students with all the force of the government because he doesn't like their message. We need to listen, be humble, and let the new generation tell us what is on their minds.