David Sirota and Terry Moran on the Epstein emails, how elites keep getting away with it, why that hurts everyone, and what we can do the change the balance of power and wealth
This is a very valuable set of conversations, starting with Anand's NYT column.
I harken you back to the founding of this nation. One could say that this nation was founded on impunity for heinous acts. Yes, certainly, we've selected leaders in government, in business, in our communities who have mastered a sort of dual consciousness -- lots of forward motion with minimal regard for humanity. We see it in every aspect of our lives -- transactional, reductive, bottom-line oriented. It's been prosperous for most, until now.
I'd like to think that capitalism and avarice are to blame -- creating an environment of endless competition and ultimately, fear. But, I think it is, in fact, baked into the American ethos even more than the economic system - "selected" in, as Anand says.
As a young country, we've got a long way to go, seems to me. Hopefully, it will not be too painful to grow up.
BTW -- Terry should not be jealous of those swivel heads at cocktail parties. They are as nervous for their survival as a squirrel on a busy road -- just trying to not be what they consider roadkill. No way to live.
I think we started off as a nation in a far better place than we are now. Yes, the late 18th century in the US had its dark sides, but there was a logarithmic greater amount of focus on the classics, and especially on issues dealing with virtue and morality. If we were to read or re-read The Republic by Plato, would we believe for a moment that we evolved as a society? I think not.
And even with the hypocrisy of Christianity that was present in colonial times, how would we look at how high we have risen or how deep we have fallen in our Christianity a la Jesus? Are all men created equal in present day USA? Are we continuing to hear that women belong in the house (kitchen mostly), having babies and pleasing their husbands as per the GOP today.
In Jefferson's days, we would simply shoot or arrest and imprison people who might be Loyalists, or would we seek validation and proceed according to the law with due process?
We do not deserve the epithets "humankind" or "civilization" in light of our behavior to peoples or the planet. At least, on the planet I come from, we don't treat people the way we see and hear today.
I loved David Sirota's clarity on the accountability-open tent issue (thermostat vs thermometer). Anand and David modeled so beautifully the continued thought and growth that comes from engaging earnestly and respectfully about differences of opinion. Gorgeous discussion!
In the Terry Moran portion, that point about power jobs selecting for people who can distance themselves from caring roles in their non-work life was such a deep insight. Wow. That really does explain so much.
It makes me feel so good to hear that all of us subscribing helped make the space for Anand to write that kick-ass NYT editorial! I love being part of the infrastructure for that creative and freedom and political force for good. Thank you, Anand!
We give the so-called elite power because we are a society of consumption. The elite have amassed great wealth and live the lives of the rich and famous- and this is what a society so strongly influenced by possessions and consumerism equates with success. In the same vein, we give more attention to an athlete or movie star than a great poet, or a great teacher. Our values have led to wars of possession and accumulation, and to the enormity of income inequality. There can never be income equality because human beings are diverse (each with its own unique genetics and epigenetics). So a lot of this is about our values as a society. We give Mother Teresa a few minutes on the news after her death but we give a movie star 2 or 3 days.
The complicity is everywhere — not just among the nudge-nudge, wink-winking elites, but among people who compartmentalize the evil that they help along on a daily basis. I’m thinking of people who work in Silly Cone Valley, drawing handsome salaries while the CEOs of their companies are simply on the take, etc. People in the Catholic church who looked the other way while their leaders abused children, etc. I mean, where does it stop?
Sirota is right on with respect to how to temper the “welcome” with accountability. He’s absolutely right that these latecomers may not sustain their support when the “rubber meets the road.”
An individual who has even a modest level of wealth can pay fair wages for services they receive from individuals. “Fair” being what it takes to be a modest homeowner, feed your kids, own a car, go on vacations etc. In today’s inflated economy - created by wealthy people who DRIVE PRICES UP BECAUSE THEY HAVE TOO MUCH MONEY AND CAN AFGORD ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING - in this economy for the basic working class person needs to make more than $50 an hour to truly live well - not even approaching living to excess, but just living a modestly comfortable life. So we can start from the bottom up by paying people what their work is truly worth. Whether it is a small company paying their employees well, of paying your really talented and reliable lawn and yard care guy $50 per hour, maybe we can help create a rising working class.
I think that accountability for these folks who have erred in ways that have a ripple effect as those mentioned, is important. The whole Larry Summers story is insane and would never happen to an average person. It’s like the CEOs who fail spectacularly but get the golden ticket on their way out the door…it just goes against the grain of basic fairness. As far as welcoming people who have changed their position, - it’s a good idea, but I can see that a level of cautiousness is not a bad idea…. Look at how Vance has changed his stance apparently to gain power and for no other reason.
Terry Moran is brilliant.
BTW David Brooks — we call him “Lord Brooks” at home — is one of the protected, effite elite himself.
This is a very valuable set of conversations, starting with Anand's NYT column.
I harken you back to the founding of this nation. One could say that this nation was founded on impunity for heinous acts. Yes, certainly, we've selected leaders in government, in business, in our communities who have mastered a sort of dual consciousness -- lots of forward motion with minimal regard for humanity. We see it in every aspect of our lives -- transactional, reductive, bottom-line oriented. It's been prosperous for most, until now.
I'd like to think that capitalism and avarice are to blame -- creating an environment of endless competition and ultimately, fear. But, I think it is, in fact, baked into the American ethos even more than the economic system - "selected" in, as Anand says.
As a young country, we've got a long way to go, seems to me. Hopefully, it will not be too painful to grow up.
BTW -- Terry should not be jealous of those swivel heads at cocktail parties. They are as nervous for their survival as a squirrel on a busy road -- just trying to not be what they consider roadkill. No way to live.
And forward we go.
I think we started off as a nation in a far better place than we are now. Yes, the late 18th century in the US had its dark sides, but there was a logarithmic greater amount of focus on the classics, and especially on issues dealing with virtue and morality. If we were to read or re-read The Republic by Plato, would we believe for a moment that we evolved as a society? I think not.
And even with the hypocrisy of Christianity that was present in colonial times, how would we look at how high we have risen or how deep we have fallen in our Christianity a la Jesus? Are all men created equal in present day USA? Are we continuing to hear that women belong in the house (kitchen mostly), having babies and pleasing their husbands as per the GOP today.
In Jefferson's days, we would simply shoot or arrest and imprison people who might be Loyalists, or would we seek validation and proceed according to the law with due process?
We do not deserve the epithets "humankind" or "civilization" in light of our behavior to peoples or the planet. At least, on the planet I come from, we don't treat people the way we see and hear today.
For how many years have we ignored sex trafficking from
The far east for ordinary people not just power elite
I loved David Sirota's clarity on the accountability-open tent issue (thermostat vs thermometer). Anand and David modeled so beautifully the continued thought and growth that comes from engaging earnestly and respectfully about differences of opinion. Gorgeous discussion!
In the Terry Moran portion, that point about power jobs selecting for people who can distance themselves from caring roles in their non-work life was such a deep insight. Wow. That really does explain so much.
It makes me feel so good to hear that all of us subscribing helped make the space for Anand to write that kick-ass NYT editorial! I love being part of the infrastructure for that creative and freedom and political force for good. Thank you, Anand!
We give the so-called elite power because we are a society of consumption. The elite have amassed great wealth and live the lives of the rich and famous- and this is what a society so strongly influenced by possessions and consumerism equates with success. In the same vein, we give more attention to an athlete or movie star than a great poet, or a great teacher. Our values have led to wars of possession and accumulation, and to the enormity of income inequality. There can never be income equality because human beings are diverse (each with its own unique genetics and epigenetics). So a lot of this is about our values as a society. We give Mother Teresa a few minutes on the news after her death but we give a movie star 2 or 3 days.
Very well said. The almighty dollar runs this country.
I would like to hear from Robert Reich who fought with Larry Summers about monetary policy in the Obama White House.
The complicity is everywhere — not just among the nudge-nudge, wink-winking elites, but among people who compartmentalize the evil that they help along on a daily basis. I’m thinking of people who work in Silly Cone Valley, drawing handsome salaries while the CEOs of their companies are simply on the take, etc. People in the Catholic church who looked the other way while their leaders abused children, etc. I mean, where does it stop?
Sirota is right on with respect to how to temper the “welcome” with accountability. He’s absolutely right that these latecomers may not sustain their support when the “rubber meets the road.”
Wow. Ted talk guy ‘helping’ charity-wash pedophilia. 🙄
Disgusting, yea.
Thank you for this! On so many levels this hour was brilliant. I don’t have the words right now. But I’m struck by “carnivorous”! Perfect word!
An individual who has even a modest level of wealth can pay fair wages for services they receive from individuals. “Fair” being what it takes to be a modest homeowner, feed your kids, own a car, go on vacations etc. In today’s inflated economy - created by wealthy people who DRIVE PRICES UP BECAUSE THEY HAVE TOO MUCH MONEY AND CAN AFGORD ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING - in this economy for the basic working class person needs to make more than $50 an hour to truly live well - not even approaching living to excess, but just living a modestly comfortable life. So we can start from the bottom up by paying people what their work is truly worth. Whether it is a small company paying their employees well, of paying your really talented and reliable lawn and yard care guy $50 per hour, maybe we can help create a rising working class.
David Sirota is courageous in his writing and conversation. I hope everyone is listening.
Thank you, Anand, for the stimulating conversations and your brilliant writing. Subscribing to you was the best thing I did this year.
I think that accountability for these folks who have erred in ways that have a ripple effect as those mentioned, is important. The whole Larry Summers story is insane and would never happen to an average person. It’s like the CEOs who fail spectacularly but get the golden ticket on their way out the door…it just goes against the grain of basic fairness. As far as welcoming people who have changed their position, - it’s a good idea, but I can see that a level of cautiousness is not a bad idea…. Look at how Vance has changed his stance apparently to gain power and for no other reason.
I always thought the broken windows theory was backwards. The property owner or business is absent.