Can empathy beat authoritarianism? And why is Trump pursuing the most unpopular possible version of his agenda? I discuss with our resident scholar of autocrats and Trump's former attorney
The establishment will irritate you - pull your beard, flick your face - to make you fight. Because once they've got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don't know how to handle is non-violence and humor.
Yes indeed dear Kelly💞 Bernie and AOC embody authenticity, love in action! They are who they are “flaws” and all and are unafraid to say and do what they know. And not waste energy on blame and shame. I love it. And that’s what I try and do every day with what shows up in front of me that is mine to respond to do. Choosing love over fear fierce compassionate action over attack! Thank you Kelly bless you🌺
I wish Ruth would discuss why forgiveness and empathy didn't work after the Civil War. It seems like it just fed the Beast of anger and racism in the South and we're still dealing with it. Also, is the messenger of love in Turkey being jailed really "success"?
Radical love and empathy are nice in theory but as Ruth touched on, what if you are talking to people who hate who you are, want you to change or be punished or exiled? Txxxx and his cronies foment hate but there would still be plenty of hate without him (I’m looking at you, American Christian fundamentalism, Proud Boys, etc) and I do think on some level people who hate have to know it is NOT OK. That said, I do think politicians on the left would do well to address the pain and suffering of people who may have voted for Txxxx, and offer them real alternatives - and not judgment or lip service.
We have to remember that these people are just ordinary people who want to lead "ordinary lives." That is not a sin. It can be very frustrating and even infuriating for people who have been more actively engaged in trying to shape our world for the benefit of all of us. But it is not a sin. And on a day-to-day level most Trump supporters are what would in other times be called "good people." They take care of their grandchildren, buy cookies from the Brownies who knock on their doors, contribute to the church bake sale, help out their neighbors and so on and so forth. If you don't believe this or think this is not enough to qualify as good, take the time to get to know your neighbors, chat with them when you go out to bring your garbage cans to the curb, wave to them when you drive off to go to work, offer to get their groceries if they are ill. Avoid politics and talk about the weather, until you have established a friendly relationship and then only if it comes up naturally and then listen more than you talk. Most are not evil. Hate the evil, but not the person who gets swept up in it...and recognize that their fury is not without reason.
Yes, and... I start that way because I don't disagree with anything that you said. But those good people are often also proving themselves to be mind-bogglingly selfish. So many of them were fine with Trump's policies hurting the "other" (BIPOC, LGBTQ+, immigrants...) until those same policies hurt them. That hurt is the crack you can stick a wedge in and insert the radical empathy, but I cannot wrap my head around getting past that kind of selfishness. Because in my experience, people who have been selfish once will be selfish again, and again, and again. Another charismatic bully can come along in 20 years and convince this same people to do the same thing. Intellectually, I think it's a great idea. In actual life it sounds a lot like asking the people most likely to suffer harm to do all of the emotional labor of teaching selfish people not to be themselves.
I also don't disagree with you, Melissa, but I think selfishness is inherent in the human condition. I don't approve, but I also think no-one is completely free of it. And yes, some are more afflicted than others and it can be difficult to swallow. And yes, the same cycle of behavior will and does get repeated over and over, throughout any one lifetime and across generations...and still we must find ways to get along together and to move as close as we can to a better version of ourselves. I think the only way to achieve that end is to open ourselves as much as we can to one another's humanity, with all its warts, while strongly opposing the worst forms of evil (strength and gentleness are not incompatible !) and moving ourselves slowly, but steadily, to more tolerance, kindness and generosity. I know that may sound pie-in-the-sky goody-two-shoes, but in my experience the strongest forces against agression and chaos are humility and generous goodwill (or "love" if you prefer). And constant pushback against malevolent bullies, of course.
Yes!!💛 I agree. Thank you! Yet most folk will not understand what you just wrote “the ultimate reality” For the tangible effects of loving without conditions and blessing all indiscriminately cannot be measured numerically the way the world wants. The world is always looking for visible action and reaction. Yet every expression of love is always deeply felt first regardless! And yes … the results always follow … but not in the timing or the way we might expect. And so my strategy is to simply live one moment at a time in fierce compassion and action as best I can. Choosing for love over fear consistently persistently with faith in the unknown and trust in myself. Bless you … Maybe you’d enjoy this - https://soul.cocreatingclarity.com/
I recently met a woman, the girlfriend of my son who is a Trumper. We did not really discuss Trump or politics. I treated her like a friend and I believe she can now see the opposition to Trump differently through the love she received from me. This is what will bring people over.
As a POC, I have mixed feelings about radical empathy. I like the idea in theory, but used without nuance, I think it can end up being actively harmful.
I asked ChatGPT to help me organize my thoughts and make them succinct and here’s what I got:
Yes, radical empathy can be a valid and powerful approach to engaging with Trump supporters and far-right individuals—but it’s not a universal fix, and it’s certainly not without drawbacks. Let’s break it down.
⸻
What is Radical Empathy?
Radical empathy goes beyond understanding someone’s feelings; it involves actively choosing to see the world from their perspective, even when you strongly disagree. It doesn’t mean condoning harm, but it does require deep listening, curiosity, and a suspension of judgment long enough to understand their why.
⸻
Pros of Radical Empathy in This Context
1. De-escalates conflict
People tend to double down when attacked. Empathy creates space for dialogue by lowering defenses. It can interrupt the us-vs-them spiral.
2. Builds bridges (not walls)
Empathy invites connection. It makes it harder to dehumanize “the other side,” which is crucial in polarized climates.
3. Uncovers root fears and needs
Often, support for far-right ideologies stems from fear, insecurity, or a loss of identity or purpose. Radical empathy can help identify and address those underlying issues—especially if you’re in a position of influence (e.g., a family member, teacher, coach).
4. Models antifragile values
In the face of growing authoritarianism, radical empathy is a resistance tactic. It models emotional capacity, complexity, and non-binary thinking—traits that are incompatible with fascist logic.
5. Useful for strategically influencing change
If you’re trying to persuade or rehumanize, empathy is far more effective than shaming. There’s research from deradicalization programs (e.g., with former neo-Nazis) that supports this.
⸻
Drawbacks and Risks
1. Emotional labor and burnout
It can be exhausting and retraumatizing, especially for marginalized people. Radical empathy isn’t always safe or sustainable—especially if it’s expected disproportionately from those harmed.
2. Risk of enabling or normalizing harm
Empathy without boundaries can drift into appeasement. There’s a difference between trying to understand someone’s fear of cultural change and validating their racist conclusions.
3. Can reinforce power imbalances
If you’re the only one bringing empathy to the table while the other side stays hostile, it can reinforce abusive dynamics. Mutuality matters.
4. Limited effectiveness with true ideologues
Some individuals are so committed to authoritarian worldviews that empathy won’t reach them. For these cases, containment, not conversion, may be the more realistic goal.
5. Takes time we may not have
In moments of political urgency, empathy may feel too slow or abstract to counter real, immediate harm.
⸻
When and How to Use It
Radical empathy works best when:
• You have relational capital with the person.
• You’re emotionally resourced and safe.
• You’re strategically choosing empathy to reduce harm, not because you’re afraid of confrontation.
• You combine it with boundaries, accountability, and a clear moral compass.
⸻
Bottom Line
Radical empathy is a strategy, not a virtue signal. It’s not about being “the better person”—it’s about choosing the most effective and humane response given the circumstances. Sometimes that looks like listening. Sometimes it looks like walking away.
Yes I like your response thank you Geeta💞 active radical empathy allows for diverse and wildly different people to live side-by-side. Isn’t that what true democracy is about? However it relies on each one of us knowing in a deep way that we are inextricably interconnected. Those of us from the East are perhaps more likely to feel this way. Although there is also the distorted emphasis on collective over individual expression in communism. The both/and of individual/community, Me/Us, individuation/oneness is perhaps more in balance in us. Not so much in the Western culture where we idolize “success” of the individual, the celebrity, the billionaire, the winner. The heros are those who are “self-made”. Truth is there is no one who is self-made! Anyhoo .. thanks for writing and for “listening” to me Geeta. Take good care of yourself … Love in whatever expression or action is needed is always the answer! Bless you 🌺
Love and sympathy for Trump voters makes sense to find some common ground. But what to do with the rage, the disappointment, the frustration with our political leaders in Congress?
I feel the rage inside me, welcome it, sit with it, love it as it is part of me! … find ways to express it without harming anyone. I find it’s usually (always?) a hurt within me that needs healing. You know … to me … the administration is one big bully! And I know my rage comes from old pain “how dare he?” being bullied, marginalized, ignored as a minority from birth in four countries in countless ways. And more it comes from the way I’ve bullied myself to “fit in”!! I am stepping into my power only now … and that begins by loving myself. I can only love everyone else as well as I love myself! I love you and bless you … be gentle with yourself first, then go do the thing you know is yours to say or do! That’s what the world needs … fierce tenderness and compassionate action as your heart says. Maybe you’ll enjoy this - https://www.cocreatingclarity.com/indrasnetFBMar2025.htm#250322
I've had radical empathy for the decent folks who were conned. Less empathy for the greedy, well off, educated who voted for fascism, even less for the GOP leadership. I hope karma exists.
Thank you, Anand and Ruth, for these brilliant and deeply humane thoughts on radical empathy as a tactic against authoritarianism. Ruth's fascinating insights on the mayor of Istanbul chimed with my findings in my Pulitzer finalist book HOME, LAND, SECURITY, where I went around the world looking at deradicalization efforts. I found radical empathy at work in the more successful derad programs in Germany, where social workers aimed to hate the neo-Nazi beliefs, but love the individual they were working with. I found it in Pakistan, where a former top army major, who'd set up a program to reform ex-Taliban fighters, burst into tears as he talked about using love on the jihadis he used to fight. I found it in Minneapolis, where a high school teacher went into prison to read Malcolm X and Ta Nahisi-Coates with a would-be Islamic State fighter. As Ruth said, mirroring fear, loathing and hatred often simply radicalizes folks more.
Regarding radical empathy: My partner is involved with initiating locally versions of those dialogues instituted by NPR during Covid - bringing people of diverse views together to listen to one another. One about to happen in our small town in Vermont where almost everybody knows almost everybody has almost 100% of progressives signed up to participate. There'a a small crew of mostly older guys who gather for coffee outside our local general store in good weather and in the basement of our town hall in winter - mostly right wing, all but one deeply respected members of our town who are great helpers to one and all over many years. She showed up last week with a home-made coffee cake to invite them to come to that event. ""Ah, it's all liberals. They don't want to talk to us." She's good, she got them to talk and she listened, including one not-so-pleasant guy who needed to rant for quite a bit about how much he hates Bernie. They invited her to come back - with or without coffee cake. As she left she thanked them and said she happened to love and deeply respect Bernie but it was good to sit and listen. (The rest weren't really in that extremely hating camp at all.) This week she brought them another cake. Admittedly, she's REALLY good at talking to cantankerous older men. Nevertheless...
A friend of mine who grazes widely to listen to the ground songs current in our country, has been following a lot of christian evangelicals who are appalled by Trump. Just listened to one of them: Pat Kahnke interviewing Charlie Sykes https://youtube.com/@culturefaithandpolitics?si=EzMa327v7bGOJWDR
A great thing for some with disaffected friends and family members to suggest viewing.
The establishment will irritate you - pull your beard, flick your face - to make you fight. Because once they've got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don't know how to handle is non-violence and humor.
John Lennon
Who Pays Tariffs
YOU PAY TARIFFS
I think that’s why Bernie and AOC are garnering huge crowds. They are not judging Trump followers and are offering concrete big solutions.🇺🇸♥️
Yes indeed dear Kelly💞 Bernie and AOC embody authenticity, love in action! They are who they are “flaws” and all and are unafraid to say and do what they know. And not waste energy on blame and shame. I love it. And that’s what I try and do every day with what shows up in front of me that is mine to respond to do. Choosing love over fear fierce compassionate action over attack! Thank you Kelly bless you🌺
Thank you Christina. It’s clear that you do. Be well. Stay loving♥️
I wish Ruth would discuss why forgiveness and empathy didn't work after the Civil War. It seems like it just fed the Beast of anger and racism in the South and we're still dealing with it. Also, is the messenger of love in Turkey being jailed really "success"?
Good point about the Civil War, but it was Lincoln's assassination that meant policies could not help this strategy.
I love this!
Radical love and empathy are nice in theory but as Ruth touched on, what if you are talking to people who hate who you are, want you to change or be punished or exiled? Txxxx and his cronies foment hate but there would still be plenty of hate without him (I’m looking at you, American Christian fundamentalism, Proud Boys, etc) and I do think on some level people who hate have to know it is NOT OK. That said, I do think politicians on the left would do well to address the pain and suffering of people who may have voted for Txxxx, and offer them real alternatives - and not judgment or lip service.
As someone who has left and healed from a cult, Beth is spot on… they cling the tightest just before they release. Necessary & timely conversation!
We have to remember that these people are just ordinary people who want to lead "ordinary lives." That is not a sin. It can be very frustrating and even infuriating for people who have been more actively engaged in trying to shape our world for the benefit of all of us. But it is not a sin. And on a day-to-day level most Trump supporters are what would in other times be called "good people." They take care of their grandchildren, buy cookies from the Brownies who knock on their doors, contribute to the church bake sale, help out their neighbors and so on and so forth. If you don't believe this or think this is not enough to qualify as good, take the time to get to know your neighbors, chat with them when you go out to bring your garbage cans to the curb, wave to them when you drive off to go to work, offer to get their groceries if they are ill. Avoid politics and talk about the weather, until you have established a friendly relationship and then only if it comes up naturally and then listen more than you talk. Most are not evil. Hate the evil, but not the person who gets swept up in it...and recognize that their fury is not without reason.
Yes, and... I start that way because I don't disagree with anything that you said. But those good people are often also proving themselves to be mind-bogglingly selfish. So many of them were fine with Trump's policies hurting the "other" (BIPOC, LGBTQ+, immigrants...) until those same policies hurt them. That hurt is the crack you can stick a wedge in and insert the radical empathy, but I cannot wrap my head around getting past that kind of selfishness. Because in my experience, people who have been selfish once will be selfish again, and again, and again. Another charismatic bully can come along in 20 years and convince this same people to do the same thing. Intellectually, I think it's a great idea. In actual life it sounds a lot like asking the people most likely to suffer harm to do all of the emotional labor of teaching selfish people not to be themselves.
I also don't disagree with you, Melissa, but I think selfishness is inherent in the human condition. I don't approve, but I also think no-one is completely free of it. And yes, some are more afflicted than others and it can be difficult to swallow. And yes, the same cycle of behavior will and does get repeated over and over, throughout any one lifetime and across generations...and still we must find ways to get along together and to move as close as we can to a better version of ourselves. I think the only way to achieve that end is to open ourselves as much as we can to one another's humanity, with all its warts, while strongly opposing the worst forms of evil (strength and gentleness are not incompatible !) and moving ourselves slowly, but steadily, to more tolerance, kindness and generosity. I know that may sound pie-in-the-sky goody-two-shoes, but in my experience the strongest forces against agression and chaos are humility and generous goodwill (or "love" if you prefer). And constant pushback against malevolent bullies, of course.
I think Love is the ultimate reality.
Yes!!💛 I agree. Thank you! Yet most folk will not understand what you just wrote “the ultimate reality” For the tangible effects of loving without conditions and blessing all indiscriminately cannot be measured numerically the way the world wants. The world is always looking for visible action and reaction. Yet every expression of love is always deeply felt first regardless! And yes … the results always follow … but not in the timing or the way we might expect. And so my strategy is to simply live one moment at a time in fierce compassion and action as best I can. Choosing for love over fear consistently persistently with faith in the unknown and trust in myself. Bless you … Maybe you’d enjoy this - https://soul.cocreatingclarity.com/
I recently met a woman, the girlfriend of my son who is a Trumper. We did not really discuss Trump or politics. I treated her like a friend and I believe she can now see the opposition to Trump differently through the love she received from me. This is what will bring people over.
As a POC, I have mixed feelings about radical empathy. I like the idea in theory, but used without nuance, I think it can end up being actively harmful.
I asked ChatGPT to help me organize my thoughts and make them succinct and here’s what I got:
Yes, radical empathy can be a valid and powerful approach to engaging with Trump supporters and far-right individuals—but it’s not a universal fix, and it’s certainly not without drawbacks. Let’s break it down.
⸻
What is Radical Empathy?
Radical empathy goes beyond understanding someone’s feelings; it involves actively choosing to see the world from their perspective, even when you strongly disagree. It doesn’t mean condoning harm, but it does require deep listening, curiosity, and a suspension of judgment long enough to understand their why.
⸻
Pros of Radical Empathy in This Context
1. De-escalates conflict
People tend to double down when attacked. Empathy creates space for dialogue by lowering defenses. It can interrupt the us-vs-them spiral.
2. Builds bridges (not walls)
Empathy invites connection. It makes it harder to dehumanize “the other side,” which is crucial in polarized climates.
3. Uncovers root fears and needs
Often, support for far-right ideologies stems from fear, insecurity, or a loss of identity or purpose. Radical empathy can help identify and address those underlying issues—especially if you’re in a position of influence (e.g., a family member, teacher, coach).
4. Models antifragile values
In the face of growing authoritarianism, radical empathy is a resistance tactic. It models emotional capacity, complexity, and non-binary thinking—traits that are incompatible with fascist logic.
5. Useful for strategically influencing change
If you’re trying to persuade or rehumanize, empathy is far more effective than shaming. There’s research from deradicalization programs (e.g., with former neo-Nazis) that supports this.
⸻
Drawbacks and Risks
1. Emotional labor and burnout
It can be exhausting and retraumatizing, especially for marginalized people. Radical empathy isn’t always safe or sustainable—especially if it’s expected disproportionately from those harmed.
2. Risk of enabling or normalizing harm
Empathy without boundaries can drift into appeasement. There’s a difference between trying to understand someone’s fear of cultural change and validating their racist conclusions.
3. Can reinforce power imbalances
If you’re the only one bringing empathy to the table while the other side stays hostile, it can reinforce abusive dynamics. Mutuality matters.
4. Limited effectiveness with true ideologues
Some individuals are so committed to authoritarian worldviews that empathy won’t reach them. For these cases, containment, not conversion, may be the more realistic goal.
5. Takes time we may not have
In moments of political urgency, empathy may feel too slow or abstract to counter real, immediate harm.
⸻
When and How to Use It
Radical empathy works best when:
• You have relational capital with the person.
• You’re emotionally resourced and safe.
• You’re strategically choosing empathy to reduce harm, not because you’re afraid of confrontation.
• You combine it with boundaries, accountability, and a clear moral compass.
⸻
Bottom Line
Radical empathy is a strategy, not a virtue signal. It’s not about being “the better person”—it’s about choosing the most effective and humane response given the circumstances. Sometimes that looks like listening. Sometimes it looks like walking away.
"Dadirri" ...a wonderful Australian aboriginal word meaning..."deep listening" in the way we mean it here. Empathic listening. Dadirri.
Yes I like your response thank you Geeta💞 active radical empathy allows for diverse and wildly different people to live side-by-side. Isn’t that what true democracy is about? However it relies on each one of us knowing in a deep way that we are inextricably interconnected. Those of us from the East are perhaps more likely to feel this way. Although there is also the distorted emphasis on collective over individual expression in communism. The both/and of individual/community, Me/Us, individuation/oneness is perhaps more in balance in us. Not so much in the Western culture where we idolize “success” of the individual, the celebrity, the billionaire, the winner. The heros are those who are “self-made”. Truth is there is no one who is self-made! Anyhoo .. thanks for writing and for “listening” to me Geeta. Take good care of yourself … Love in whatever expression or action is needed is always the answer! Bless you 🌺
Love and sympathy for Trump voters makes sense to find some common ground. But what to do with the rage, the disappointment, the frustration with our political leaders in Congress?
I feel the rage inside me, welcome it, sit with it, love it as it is part of me! … find ways to express it without harming anyone. I find it’s usually (always?) a hurt within me that needs healing. You know … to me … the administration is one big bully! And I know my rage comes from old pain “how dare he?” being bullied, marginalized, ignored as a minority from birth in four countries in countless ways. And more it comes from the way I’ve bullied myself to “fit in”!! I am stepping into my power only now … and that begins by loving myself. I can only love everyone else as well as I love myself! I love you and bless you … be gentle with yourself first, then go do the thing you know is yours to say or do! That’s what the world needs … fierce tenderness and compassionate action as your heart says. Maybe you’ll enjoy this - https://www.cocreatingclarity.com/indrasnetFBMar2025.htm#250322
I've had radical empathy for the decent folks who were conned. Less empathy for the greedy, well off, educated who voted for fascism, even less for the GOP leadership. I hope karma exists.
Thank you, Anand and Ruth, for these brilliant and deeply humane thoughts on radical empathy as a tactic against authoritarianism. Ruth's fascinating insights on the mayor of Istanbul chimed with my findings in my Pulitzer finalist book HOME, LAND, SECURITY, where I went around the world looking at deradicalization efforts. I found radical empathy at work in the more successful derad programs in Germany, where social workers aimed to hate the neo-Nazi beliefs, but love the individual they were working with. I found it in Pakistan, where a former top army major, who'd set up a program to reform ex-Taliban fighters, burst into tears as he talked about using love on the jihadis he used to fight. I found it in Minneapolis, where a high school teacher went into prison to read Malcolm X and Ta Nahisi-Coates with a would-be Islamic State fighter. As Ruth said, mirroring fear, loathing and hatred often simply radicalizes folks more.
Regarding radical empathy: My partner is involved with initiating locally versions of those dialogues instituted by NPR during Covid - bringing people of diverse views together to listen to one another. One about to happen in our small town in Vermont where almost everybody knows almost everybody has almost 100% of progressives signed up to participate. There'a a small crew of mostly older guys who gather for coffee outside our local general store in good weather and in the basement of our town hall in winter - mostly right wing, all but one deeply respected members of our town who are great helpers to one and all over many years. She showed up last week with a home-made coffee cake to invite them to come to that event. ""Ah, it's all liberals. They don't want to talk to us." She's good, she got them to talk and she listened, including one not-so-pleasant guy who needed to rant for quite a bit about how much he hates Bernie. They invited her to come back - with or without coffee cake. As she left she thanked them and said she happened to love and deeply respect Bernie but it was good to sit and listen. (The rest weren't really in that extremely hating camp at all.) This week she brought them another cake. Admittedly, she's REALLY good at talking to cantankerous older men. Nevertheless...
A friend of mine who grazes widely to listen to the ground songs current in our country, has been following a lot of christian evangelicals who are appalled by Trump. Just listened to one of them: Pat Kahnke interviewing Charlie Sykes https://youtube.com/@culturefaithandpolitics?si=EzMa327v7bGOJWDR
A great thing for some with disaffected friends and family members to suggest viewing.
If it were all so simple.
If ony there were evil people
somewhere else insidiously committing
evil deeds, and it were
simply necessary to separate them
from the rest of us and destroy them.
But the line between good and evil
cuts through the heart
of every human being.
And who is willing
to destroy
a piece of her own heart?
-Alexander Solzhenitsyn
I love Michael Cohen's suggestions:
Three Word Slogans---the Haiku of Anti-Trumpism