I’m halfway through listening to Amber T and I have to comment before I go further.
this part of the discussion revolves around teaching men boys how to be good men and boys. If I could find that men and boys were actually interested in listening to me, to their sister, to their girlfriend, to their wives, then maybe I would be try again. But I’m 72and I am tired. I unsuccessfully wore myself out to teach my husband who is now my ex. there is so little interest from the men around me. It’s been that way most of my life.
Ellen you hit the nail on the head. The contempt inherent in sexism simply doesn't allow learning. People won't listen to people they don't fully respect.
How can women be responsible for teaching men not to be sexist when their sexism prevents them from listening to us in the first place? It's a doomed endeavor. Save your energy and live your life.
I can't tell you how much I disagree with Amber on the role of women to educate men. She is wrong.
In 2020 Black people were so clear that we were tired. How subservient do you want me to be?
As a Black woman, I am being told to take on the burden of being oppressed by racism and sexism and then also to educate for free the people who are oppressing me. I wasn't put on this planet to be your magical negro who brings you free enlightenment at my own psychological expense.
This additional demand of women is sexist and keeps us in constant service to those who refuse to get it.
People go to university to become therapists and DEI trainers and get paid for their work. Charlie Kirk is paid for his work.
Filling this gap is the work of organizations, professionals, influencers, authors, schools, governments, media, non-profits, lobbying groups, people who get paid for their work. It is not the work of oppressed individuals.
I have a life and I am not going to spend my time educating people I don't want to be around.
You have the coolest friends . . .You are the coolest person, of course you have the coolest friends . . . Thank you for sharing with us! P.S. Have you heard of the work of Kate Manne? She is a feminist philosopher who wrote a book called “Down Girl” that totally frame-shifted my understanding of misogyny. I thought of it so much during this conversation.
It was great to have Amber on here today, Anand! I have loved poetry since I was a child.
Sometimes in my life, I have wanted to be a man- not a boy, not when I was a young girl. I began to realize the power that men hold, the privilege they have, the upper-hand they seem to wield. Several incidents occurred while growing up, when I was definitely the weaker-bodied one and had to rely on intellect and wiles to escape the situations, because I didn't have the physical strength or size to overcome. What happened to me happened at the hand of males- boys, bosses, friends, strangers, each trying to take advantage or control, and take what did not belong to them. How many times had I heard "dumb blonde", "dumb girl", "dumb female, "dumb polak", even from my own father. It didn't matter that I skipped a grade in school, graduated high school at 16 and worked my way to college, graduating at age 20, then onto to even higher degrees. Heck, I even believed in the 70s that women and men could be friends (feminism had apparently NOT reached the ears of many of the males I knew)! Maybe this is one reason I became a teacher, to raise consciousness, to raise awareness, to treat people more equally, eventually learning to teach equitably. Amber is right; if we (principled women and men) don't teach our young men first and well, people like Charlie Kirk or the Heritage Foundation will step in and do it for us.
I want to win this prize: 5 minutes in an alley with Donald Trump to KICK HIS FAT ORANGE ASS, on behalf of the 27 pending sexual assault cases, and any of Epstein’s female victims that he NO DOUBT ‘shared’ with DJT.
there are so many insidious tentacles to sexism - it's in the air we breathe and there are examples everywhere, from magazine covers, to ads, children's TV shows, video clips of famous musicians abusing their female partners, politicians who mock women openly, pastors of certain churches, heck almost the whole bible is sexist - the abrahamic religions, etc. etc. I think as women we have a role in combating this, in how we raise our sons, how we educate the men in our lives - and I get how tired so many of us women are of this thousands of years old problem. I remember a study that Gloria Steinem referred to years ago about women in college who began as confident freshman, and lost confidence in their ability over the years of study because only men were referenced in their classes - no female role models. Modeling is really impactful. Anand, your son will learn more from you as a model than he will from almost anything else. There was also a study I learned about years ago regarding our adult behavior being based on who we saw as the most 'powerful' parent, which unfortunately in many families is the abusive parent and even if as a child one didn't like that behavior, they re-enacted it themselves as an adult. I heard a story about a boy in kindergarten whose parents were gay, who came home in the first few weeks of school and was insistent that his fathers marry women because that's what a marriage was supposed to be, and his fathers had to work to counteract that story - in kindergarten!! I like the idea of telling boys how to be vs what not to be - and I think it's important for men to step up and be ardent role models to the younger males in their lives. Who is standing up to the bullies in the hallways and locker rooms in our schools? Where is the feminist counterpart to Charlie Kirk? well, as usual, this conversation sparked a lot for me! thanks!
Thank you for this wonderful talk, Anand!
I’m halfway through listening to Amber T and I have to comment before I go further.
this part of the discussion revolves around teaching men boys how to be good men and boys. If I could find that men and boys were actually interested in listening to me, to their sister, to their girlfriend, to their wives, then maybe I would be try again. But I’m 72and I am tired. I unsuccessfully wore myself out to teach my husband who is now my ex. there is so little interest from the men around me. It’s been that way most of my life.
Ellen you hit the nail on the head. The contempt inherent in sexism simply doesn't allow learning. People won't listen to people they don't fully respect.
How can women be responsible for teaching men not to be sexist when their sexism prevents them from listening to us in the first place? It's a doomed endeavor. Save your energy and live your life.
I can't tell you how much I disagree with Amber on the role of women to educate men. She is wrong.
In 2020 Black people were so clear that we were tired. How subservient do you want me to be?
As a Black woman, I am being told to take on the burden of being oppressed by racism and sexism and then also to educate for free the people who are oppressing me. I wasn't put on this planet to be your magical negro who brings you free enlightenment at my own psychological expense.
This additional demand of women is sexist and keeps us in constant service to those who refuse to get it.
People go to university to become therapists and DEI trainers and get paid for their work. Charlie Kirk is paid for his work.
Filling this gap is the work of organizations, professionals, influencers, authors, schools, governments, media, non-profits, lobbying groups, people who get paid for their work. It is not the work of oppressed individuals.
I have a life and I am not going to spend my time educating people I don't want to be around.
Amen sis.
I love you guys. I get it.
But honestly, fuck that. I’m so tired of catering to the whining penis holders.
Maybe it’s worth a try. Idk.
You have the coolest friends . . .You are the coolest person, of course you have the coolest friends . . . Thank you for sharing with us! P.S. Have you heard of the work of Kate Manne? She is a feminist philosopher who wrote a book called “Down Girl” that totally frame-shifted my understanding of misogyny. I thought of it so much during this conversation.
It was great to have Amber on here today, Anand! I have loved poetry since I was a child.
Sometimes in my life, I have wanted to be a man- not a boy, not when I was a young girl. I began to realize the power that men hold, the privilege they have, the upper-hand they seem to wield. Several incidents occurred while growing up, when I was definitely the weaker-bodied one and had to rely on intellect and wiles to escape the situations, because I didn't have the physical strength or size to overcome. What happened to me happened at the hand of males- boys, bosses, friends, strangers, each trying to take advantage or control, and take what did not belong to them. How many times had I heard "dumb blonde", "dumb girl", "dumb female, "dumb polak", even from my own father. It didn't matter that I skipped a grade in school, graduated high school at 16 and worked my way to college, graduating at age 20, then onto to even higher degrees. Heck, I even believed in the 70s that women and men could be friends (feminism had apparently NOT reached the ears of many of the males I knew)! Maybe this is one reason I became a teacher, to raise consciousness, to raise awareness, to treat people more equally, eventually learning to teach equitably. Amber is right; if we (principled women and men) don't teach our young men first and well, people like Charlie Kirk or the Heritage Foundation will step in and do it for us.
Wow re: the poem
Anand, I respect you immensely. Thank you.
I want to win this prize: 5 minutes in an alley with Donald Trump to KICK HIS FAT ORANGE ASS, on behalf of the 27 pending sexual assault cases, and any of Epstein’s female victims that he NO DOUBT ‘shared’ with DJT.
Wonderful conversation ❤️
I am so with you Kimberly, it's so exhausting.
What a great conversation!
Agree with Amber 💯 that the enemy is billionaires.
Donald Trump
Toxic Lump
Hate Pump
I am not a poet, but write songs.
I am a member of the “Me Too” movement.
Thankyou Amber for beautiful and jarring THOUGHTS.
there are so many insidious tentacles to sexism - it's in the air we breathe and there are examples everywhere, from magazine covers, to ads, children's TV shows, video clips of famous musicians abusing their female partners, politicians who mock women openly, pastors of certain churches, heck almost the whole bible is sexist - the abrahamic religions, etc. etc. I think as women we have a role in combating this, in how we raise our sons, how we educate the men in our lives - and I get how tired so many of us women are of this thousands of years old problem. I remember a study that Gloria Steinem referred to years ago about women in college who began as confident freshman, and lost confidence in their ability over the years of study because only men were referenced in their classes - no female role models. Modeling is really impactful. Anand, your son will learn more from you as a model than he will from almost anything else. There was also a study I learned about years ago regarding our adult behavior being based on who we saw as the most 'powerful' parent, which unfortunately in many families is the abusive parent and even if as a child one didn't like that behavior, they re-enacted it themselves as an adult. I heard a story about a boy in kindergarten whose parents were gay, who came home in the first few weeks of school and was insistent that his fathers marry women because that's what a marriage was supposed to be, and his fathers had to work to counteract that story - in kindergarten!! I like the idea of telling boys how to be vs what not to be - and I think it's important for men to step up and be ardent role models to the younger males in their lives. Who is standing up to the bullies in the hallways and locker rooms in our schools? Where is the feminist counterpart to Charlie Kirk? well, as usual, this conversation sparked a lot for me! thanks!
Me too- forever in my conscious awareness