Ruth Ben-Ghiat on how ICE’s low-level buzz of terror recalls the methods of autocrats and colonial powers, how to reclaim patriotism, and why Americans are still what they eat
Why does a repressive secret police state not upset more people? i ask myself this in disbelief every day. I am postwar German born. Right now there should be no celebrating of America, because the culture is also NOT well, not healthy. More people need to wake up, show that they have moral conscience and courage. Protesting is not the same as offering protection for our laborers. Otherwise they are as guilty as the Germans in Nazi times. My generation had to deeply question our history and culture – it was not just Hitler and his henchmen – in order to create a more humane society. So we could feel again that we were part of the human family. Choosing to look away is rampant in America even in progressive liberal circles. There is much to celebrate about America, i agree. But the sickness of the culture has to also be named. I was naturalized last September, i cried and felt i experienced the best of America in that room of people from all over the world, and a wonderful ceremony speech. The whole room cried. But now these American rights are partially taken from us already. Let's also reflect on our willingness to be courageous not just upset. True Protectors in our neighborhood. In some communities this is happening. Often done by ordinary people with little education, they put their bodies on the line. They show courage without much attention from the press, they have little public voice. Most people sit on the couch. Protecting those who are other than us, vulnerable, needs to be taught from young age on. Feeling their fear even if we don't need to be in fear ourselves! I won't write here what i am doing since that could get me in trouble as a newly naturalized public artist. Sigh. Thanks for what you are doing :)
Triumph of the Will is a classic Nazi propaganda movie by Leni Riefenstahl. It was a documentary of the first Nazi Congress in a huge stadium in Nuremberg and it was made soon after Hitler took power, so it was kind of introducing Germans to the new Nazi regime. It starts with Hitler flying through the clouds and landing in Nuremberg. Next there is the construction of a huge tent camp for the week-long Congress. And then comes the food.
Enormous pots of food cooked by burly, smiling Nazi workers. Happy people eating to their hearts’ content. The message is that the Nazis are your friends and providers of shelter and food. In Depression-era Germany that must have been a very powerful image.
It’s so odd to contrast that with the MAGA budget stripping away SNAP benefits and other social benefits. The cruelty of depriving poor people of food is about as basically repugnant as human behavior gets. What the hell are they trying to accomplish? Even Hitler knew you win more people with honey than vinegar.
Everyone should see Triumph of the Will once. It is a masterpiece of propaganda and constantly reminds you of current events, right down to the finale: a nighttime speech by torchlight by Hitler that could be by Trump.
Since World War One, real long-time hunger had been a constant in Germany in 20's and 30's, not comparable to here, that's why it worked so well to dangle food in front of a majority hungry population! We forget it was a not a rich country, and only the very rich or farmers had food. But that's also why communism had a good base in Germany – socialists, communist etc were ruthlessly "exterminated" early on (imprisoned, tortured and killed, sometimes released to spread the terror), before the Jewish people. Our Führer here has studied H and adores the spectacles and methods.... Americans would do good to look at how it all evolved, yes exactly like here!
I was surprised to learn how quickly the camp at Dachau was built after Hitler came to power—just a few months. It was first used to imprison his political enemies as you said. It was not on German soil so it was out of the way. It’s very much like the concentration camp in El Salvador that we are sending people to. (A concentration camp is defined by the Holocaust Museum as a prison outside the judicial system.). The authoritarian regimes all are basically the same.
slight correction: Dachau is on German ground, back then and now. But other camps were built on occupied territory. Yes the similarity is eerie. And horrific, unbearable... we need to be honest and not just intellectual about it all, so we are moved to true courageous resistance.
We the people need to create a new march! It should be named MAC FOR "MARCH AGAINST CORRUPTION". And the five million people who marched on the NO KING march day, should absolutely take cars, planes buses or walk, fly or ride straight to our nation's capitol!
Until the evil menace is faced up close and in person with evidence that we will no longer tolerate what is happening, he will never believe he is NOT A KING WHO CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS. I feel so strongly this is what needs to happen.
I am 78 years old and only have social security to depend on. I'm also a former radio news reporter and want everyone in our country to realize the importance of what's happening! We have to go directly to the source and confront him in person.
My name is Tena Bunnell, and I live in Wilton, NY My phone number is 513.477.7654. Let's all get off our asses and defend our unalienable rights!!!
Thank you for this discussion. Not gonna lie, I had sunk into a bit of a pit of despair and self-loathing over the weekend. Between working in health care (whose services, let’s be honest, are about to become even stingier and painful to access across the board, in anticipation of and along with the revenue loss that entails from cuts to insurance) and reading James Baldwin as an answer to what do I still admire and love about America (we produce artists like that!), who is always mesmerizing and never comforting, I have been in a bit of a place. A place approximating the place of your friend. So I felt that remonstration personally. Appreciate your perspective always.
Really loved this conversation. Especially the food aspect of it. I am looking forward to reading your piece on food Anand. Also, I appreciate the discussion of ICE and especially the point that it is run differently under Trump.
MAGA owns the flag, for now, wearing and using it as their brand. Now if we protest with the flag upside down we project our rejection of MAGA. We DON'T respect America in its current state and do not want to be perceived as MAGA.
I may not always agree with your thoughts but you always motivate me to look at things differently. I love your perspective! I think it is so valuable to your reporting and writing that you are not a white American. I say this as a white woman who gets very tired of white male opinions.
With all of this food bridging talk, you need an exchange with Mark Bittman.
Separately, regarding the diversity that makes a "world nation" & is a hallmark, whether accepted or not, of modern, forward, cosmopolitan societies, this our "fountain of youth:" continual renewal. The Right, as epitomized by the white Christian Nationalist Project 2025, is totally freaked out by this.
This message is very important. Many of us are growing small vegetable gardens to keep subsidizing our food supply! This is hugely beneficial to our community and our environment!
It feels like a no brainer that we have not seen this happening. I feel it is indicative of our denial that this is all happening. I am not a specialist, nor an academic, am just okay intelligent and this was clear with the first appearance of ICE. An armed civil militia under a separate branch of the government. WHAT DO WE DO????? We are in denial.
“How the new budget turns ICE — the masked, unidentified, plainclothes agents who’ve been taking people off the streets — into something new for America: a secret police force.”
Why does a repressive secret police state not upset more people? i ask myself this in disbelief every day. I am postwar German born. Right now there should be no celebrating of America, because the culture is also NOT well, not healthy. More people need to wake up, show that they have moral conscience and courage. Protesting is not the same as offering protection for our laborers. Otherwise they are as guilty as the Germans in Nazi times. My generation had to deeply question our history and culture – it was not just Hitler and his henchmen – in order to create a more humane society. So we could feel again that we were part of the human family. Choosing to look away is rampant in America even in progressive liberal circles. There is much to celebrate about America, i agree. But the sickness of the culture has to also be named. I was naturalized last September, i cried and felt i experienced the best of America in that room of people from all over the world, and a wonderful ceremony speech. The whole room cried. But now these American rights are partially taken from us already. Let's also reflect on our willingness to be courageous not just upset. True Protectors in our neighborhood. In some communities this is happening. Often done by ordinary people with little education, they put their bodies on the line. They show courage without much attention from the press, they have little public voice. Most people sit on the couch. Protecting those who are other than us, vulnerable, needs to be taught from young age on. Feeling their fear even if we don't need to be in fear ourselves! I won't write here what i am doing since that could get me in trouble as a newly naturalized public artist. Sigh. Thanks for what you are doing :)
I agree that people are looking away. With financial and racial security, they see themselves as above the fray. Sadly, not looking at all.
So glad to hear you defending patriotism as something we all should own!
Apropos how authoritarians use food:
Triumph of the Will is a classic Nazi propaganda movie by Leni Riefenstahl. It was a documentary of the first Nazi Congress in a huge stadium in Nuremberg and it was made soon after Hitler took power, so it was kind of introducing Germans to the new Nazi regime. It starts with Hitler flying through the clouds and landing in Nuremberg. Next there is the construction of a huge tent camp for the week-long Congress. And then comes the food.
Enormous pots of food cooked by burly, smiling Nazi workers. Happy people eating to their hearts’ content. The message is that the Nazis are your friends and providers of shelter and food. In Depression-era Germany that must have been a very powerful image.
It’s so odd to contrast that with the MAGA budget stripping away SNAP benefits and other social benefits. The cruelty of depriving poor people of food is about as basically repugnant as human behavior gets. What the hell are they trying to accomplish? Even Hitler knew you win more people with honey than vinegar.
Everyone should see Triumph of the Will once. It is a masterpiece of propaganda and constantly reminds you of current events, right down to the finale: a nighttime speech by torchlight by Hitler that could be by Trump.
Since World War One, real long-time hunger had been a constant in Germany in 20's and 30's, not comparable to here, that's why it worked so well to dangle food in front of a majority hungry population! We forget it was a not a rich country, and only the very rich or farmers had food. But that's also why communism had a good base in Germany – socialists, communist etc were ruthlessly "exterminated" early on (imprisoned, tortured and killed, sometimes released to spread the terror), before the Jewish people. Our Führer here has studied H and adores the spectacles and methods.... Americans would do good to look at how it all evolved, yes exactly like here!
I was surprised to learn how quickly the camp at Dachau was built after Hitler came to power—just a few months. It was first used to imprison his political enemies as you said. It was not on German soil so it was out of the way. It’s very much like the concentration camp in El Salvador that we are sending people to. (A concentration camp is defined by the Holocaust Museum as a prison outside the judicial system.). The authoritarian regimes all are basically the same.
slight correction: Dachau is on German ground, back then and now. But other camps were built on occupied territory. Yes the similarity is eerie. And horrific, unbearable... we need to be honest and not just intellectual about it all, so we are moved to true courageous resistance.
We the people need to create a new march! It should be named MAC FOR "MARCH AGAINST CORRUPTION". And the five million people who marched on the NO KING march day, should absolutely take cars, planes buses or walk, fly or ride straight to our nation's capitol!
Until the evil menace is faced up close and in person with evidence that we will no longer tolerate what is happening, he will never believe he is NOT A KING WHO CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS. I feel so strongly this is what needs to happen.
I am 78 years old and only have social security to depend on. I'm also a former radio news reporter and want everyone in our country to realize the importance of what's happening! We have to go directly to the source and confront him in person.
My name is Tena Bunnell, and I live in Wilton, NY My phone number is 513.477.7654. Let's all get off our asses and defend our unalienable rights!!!
Thank you for this discussion. Not gonna lie, I had sunk into a bit of a pit of despair and self-loathing over the weekend. Between working in health care (whose services, let’s be honest, are about to become even stingier and painful to access across the board, in anticipation of and along with the revenue loss that entails from cuts to insurance) and reading James Baldwin as an answer to what do I still admire and love about America (we produce artists like that!), who is always mesmerizing and never comforting, I have been in a bit of a place. A place approximating the place of your friend. So I felt that remonstration personally. Appreciate your perspective always.
Really loved this conversation. Especially the food aspect of it. I am looking forward to reading your piece on food Anand. Also, I appreciate the discussion of ICE and especially the point that it is run differently under Trump.
Thanks very much!
MAGA owns the flag, for now, wearing and using it as their brand. Now if we protest with the flag upside down we project our rejection of MAGA. We DON'T respect America in its current state and do not want to be perceived as MAGA.
I don't see Anand or Ruth with flag-ware.
Diana Jenkins Los Angeles
I may not always agree with your thoughts but you always motivate me to look at things differently. I love your perspective! I think it is so valuable to your reporting and writing that you are not a white American. I say this as a white woman who gets very tired of white male opinions.
With all of this food bridging talk, you need an exchange with Mark Bittman.
Separately, regarding the diversity that makes a "world nation" & is a hallmark, whether accepted or not, of modern, forward, cosmopolitan societies, this our "fountain of youth:" continual renewal. The Right, as epitomized by the white Christian Nationalist Project 2025, is totally freaked out by this.
I am patriotic for my planet. I think it’s the BEST planet in the whole Solar system. I want to protect it from anyone who threatens it
This message is very important. Many of us are growing small vegetable gardens to keep subsidizing our food supply! This is hugely beneficial to our community and our environment!
It feels like a no brainer that we have not seen this happening. I feel it is indicative of our denial that this is all happening. I am not a specialist, nor an academic, am just okay intelligent and this was clear with the first appearance of ICE. An armed civil militia under a separate branch of the government. WHAT DO WE DO????? We are in denial.
❣️🇺🇸Thank you Ruth & Anand!
Never give up on our democracy… Courage❣️🇺🇸
“How the new budget turns ICE — the masked, unidentified, plainclothes agents who’ve been taking people off the streets — into something new for America: a secret police force.”